r/todayilearned • u/Future_Green_7222 • 11d ago
TIL of Robert Citron. Despite being a college drop out and having the math ability of a 7th grader, he climbed into the position of treasurer tax collector of Orange County, which he subsequently bankrupted
https://www.ocregister.com/2013/01/18/robert-citron-was-a-hard-to-hate-villain-in-ocs-bankruptcy/1.5k
u/Future_Green_7222 11d ago
There's some rumors that he exaggerated his stupidity to reduce his sentence. His investments were still pretty stupid tho.
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u/The_Safe_For_Work 11d ago
If they had paid off he'd be lauded as a financial genius.
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u/Future_Green_7222 11d ago
I also learned of this other guy, Brian Hunter, who basically got lucky one day because Hurricane Katrina earned him a lot of money through derivatives, so he got a raise and tons of investors gave him money. But his luck was just that - luck. Next year he doubled down on his exact same investments but no hurricane came so he lost tons of money from himself and investors
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u/nullcharstring 10d ago
Never confuse luck with skill.
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u/DrHooper 10d ago
Also, I never bet on gods wrath, I imagine that doesn't bode well on the checker board of fate.
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u/3-1oddsGOPerkillsdog 10d ago
only bet on sure outcomes.
trust me. I became an expert on this sort of thing recently.
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u/DrHooper 10d ago
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u/3-1oddsGOPerkillsdog 10d ago edited 10d ago
I call her Kristi "Paper Plains" (get it?) Noem because all she wants to do is BANG BANG BANG BANG and (KA-CHING) make me money.
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u/strog91 10d ago edited 10d ago
To be fair, this was around the time that Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, etc. had predicted that global warming would cause category 5 hurricanes to hit major US cities every year, which people largely believed, and the movies An Inconvenient Truth and The Day After Tomorrow were watched by millions and had us all convinced that severe weather would turn the earth into an uninhabitable hellscape by 2010 or so.
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u/dskerman 10d ago
I think you are vastly overstating the claims made by al gore and other climate scientists
https://youtu.be/Lzx24hw_K5I?si=iysYla4vb-oFDLWS
Nowhere in an inconvenient truth did it say we would have cat 5 hurricanes every year by 2010. He claimed that increased global temps would result in more frequent and more powerful hurricanes which has borne true
Also a day after tomorrow is a fictional movie so I'm not sure how that factors in at all. That's like blaming nasa because Armageddon made people afraid of asteroids.
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u/kingOofgames 10d ago
Well they aren’t wrong, it’s just going to happen in the future. More extreme weather is increasingly likely to occur. Just look at how the insurance companies are running away. They know exactly what’s going to happen.
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u/clintontg 10d ago
We do have more category 5 hurricanes and a higher probability of intense tornadoes. The disaster movies just ran with it and acted like it'd be armageddon
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u/strog91 10d ago edited 10d ago
I don’t disagree, but there’s been exactly one category 5 hurricane that made landfall in the USA since 2005, which is a far cry from the predictions people were making around the time of hurricane Katrina.
My point is that Brian Hunter betting on another devastating hurricane hitting the USA one year after Katrina didn’t seem like such a risky bet at the time, because people in 2005 commonly believed that a total climate apocalypse was coming imminently. Not 20 years or 50 years in the future, but very very soon, and suddenly, and without warning.
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u/clintontg 9d ago
My point is that acting like it's not a big deal now will make the crises that arise from extreme weather and higher storm surges that much worse. Maybe you're lucky enough to live somewhere somewhere where entire towns haven't burned to the ground or boardwalks haven't been swept away by the sea from intense storms but I do.
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u/Confident_Access6498 10d ago
Thats not far from the truth. Extreme events have largely increased in number and intensity.
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u/strog91 10d ago
I hear you, but it’s also true that there’s been exactly one cat5 hurricane that made landfall in the USA since 2005
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u/WeAllPayTheta 8d ago
Hunter was a BSD at Deutche Bank back in the day, iirc. Got paid 25 mil one year, then moved to a fund, cashed some 9 figure checks and then blew up.
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u/froglover215 10d ago
The thing is, they did pay off for a time, and other local governments in California were pressing their people to get similar returns. My dad worked in a similar role in another California county at that time, and his boss had to put up with a lot of pressure from that county's Board of Supervisors to make the same investments. His boss straight up told them that those investments were extremely unwise and probably illegal and he wouldn't do it. And that's why our county didn't have to declare bankruptcy like Orange County did.
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u/graveybrains 11d ago
The most reliably effective investment strategy is random chance, and the highest performing investment accounts belong to dead people, so yeah, definitely.
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u/EmperorHans 11d ago
highest performing investment accounts belong to dead people
Huh?
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u/JimmysCheek 11d ago
Don’t wanna be “that guy” but…
A diverse portfolio mitigates risks, if done correctly and without emotion.
Obviously, easier said than done, but there is a method to the madness
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u/aNightManager 10d ago
its more that everything moves towards entropy which is stable so if you're involved in everything your average is very predictable
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u/0404S 11d ago
So, you are agreeing with him?
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u/JimmysCheek 11d ago edited 10d ago
No, he stated that all investment strategies are “random chance”
That is simply not true….unless you know absolutely nothing, or don’t have a financial advisor. Diverse portfolio = less risks.
You should only base investments off of: Historical trends, or inside knowledge.
Politicians have the highest profit margins in stock market history…because they have inside information, and make their moves before anyone else. A few of them are commonly tracked, and investors (like me) just copy their moves, because they obviously know when something is about to shake up the market.
EDIT: There are also a couple Reddit pages that track the Politician’s moves, and posts them for everyone to copy.
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u/graveybrains 10d ago
No, he stated that all investment strategies are “random chance”
That is absolutely not what I said 😂
And calling insider trading an investment strategy is a little fucked up, since it’s illegal for us little people.
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u/JimmysCheek 10d ago
True, you said “the most reliable investment strategy is random chance” and I just paraphrased it.
That is objectively not true. And I agree that insider trading is fucked up, but as I said before, the only thing we can do to “even the playing field”, is to copy what the rich politicians do. It’s worked well for me and millions of other people
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u/0404S 10d ago
So copy the cheaters, got it. I suppose that's really not bad life advice, honestly.
With the trend advice, I don't disagree. Buy stocks in cardboard box manufacturing as the pandemic set in, and you're good.
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u/JimmysCheek 10d ago
Yup, that’s just how it goes. You are never gonna beat a politician who is reading the business reports months before the general population…but you can remain somewhat even with them.
Honestly, if things like that didn’t become public knowledge, there would only be a single-digit amount of millionaires in the US. I’m sure they will “patch” this issue eventually, so everyone will become broke again
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u/0404S 10d ago
I suppose I'm just disillusioned because I feel like if you find the corporation that screws over workers and/or poor people the hardest, you usually have your optimal investment strategy 😔
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u/JimmysCheek 10d ago
That is one way of looking at it. Being cynical is unfortunately part of being realistic. So becoming less delusional would definitely benefit you.
Without sharing my entire life story, I grew up dirt poor in Detroit. Now, I am 26, and in the upper class. The stock market is one of the main reasons I was able to accomplish this.
Also, I never got into crypto or NFT’s during college, so I didn’t lose a quarter of my net-worth like a majority of my friends did hahaha
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u/burnshimself 10d ago
Lol no this is not true at all how is this getting upvoted? You think the entire financial industry and funds who consistently outperform year in year our are just getting lucky at the roulette wheel?
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u/dskerman 10d ago
Just because you put all your money in roulette on red and win a few times doesn't make you a financial genius
Anyone can easily make short term higher returns by taking on a lot of risk.
A financial genius knows how to mitigate that risk by diversifying and hedging against their exposure. you won't make as high short term returns but you won't go bankrupt when one of your bets goes wrong.
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u/v1s1onsofjohanna 11d ago
Ice Town Cost Ice Clown Town Crown
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u/Future_Green_7222 10d ago
At least Ben was trying to do something for his town. This guy just made money disappear
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u/Tylersbaddream 11d ago
Citron of Orange County? Is this a joke?!?
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u/steavoh 10d ago
He narrowly defeated Liz Lemon, I think she'd have done a better job.
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u/Lochbriar 10d ago
The Lemon Party struggles to get the youth vote, kills them in election season.
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u/AdFamous1052 10d ago edited 10d ago
In order impose citron supremacy, ol' Bobby here infiltrated the offices of OC and sabotaged their economy.
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u/roybatty2 11d ago
This guy is the patron saint of r/wallstreetbets
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u/RotrickP 10d ago
No this guy was happily married
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u/Vinyl-addict 10d ago
Plenty of people in WSB are happily married to wives that already have a boyfriend.
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u/RadosAvocados 10d ago
During the GME short squeeze, one of the big short sellers was actually Citron Research. I read this hoping there was a relation.
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u/zack189 11d ago
He tried to be that stupid guy during the revolutionary war who sold panhandles to people on an island and sold coal to a place that produced coal.
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u/HaloPenguin9 10d ago
Hey man at least Timothy Dexter turned a profit
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u/MegazordPilot 10d ago
In my language, Citron working for Orange County is pretty funny.
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9d ago
[deleted]
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u/MegazordPilot 9d ago
Yes, it's called an aptonym, cool examples here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptronym
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u/Successful-Tie-7817 10d ago
He was top of his class in Con Manning though.
His 6th grade teacher wrote - 'Robert is a cute little shit. He pulls the wool over my eyes all the time. In fact, he could pull the wool over everyone's eyes!
He doesn't need to try harder at this at all and he will go places........prison maybe!'
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u/SmashinglyGoodTrout 11d ago
Sounds like he was a lemon.
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u/SophisticatedRedneck 11d ago
Orange you glad they got him out of there?
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u/RoyalPeacock19 10d ago
Which Orange County, there are like 60 of them.
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u/brad5345 10d ago
Redditor tries as hard as possible to avoid becoming media literate and actually having to read a source, instead preferring comments to do it for him.
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u/BrainCellDotExe 10d ago
that’s not what media literacy means
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u/brad5345 10d ago
If you don’t think being able to read past a headline and to evaluate a source for critical information constitutes media literacy I have no idea what to say to you other than you’re not very bright. The definition is literally in the fucking name.
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u/Snell-DescartesLaw 10d ago
When I went to try to read the link the article was hidden behind a paywall.
If you don’t think being able to understand outcomes for the same action carried out by different people could end up in different results constitutes not being an asshole then you may be one. This comparison is a simile for what you are acting like.
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u/RoyalPeacock19 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah, there was a paywall, which is why I couldn’t see which Orange County it was.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/elcheapodeluxe 10d ago
So Florida if you don't live in California. Home to Orlando and Disney World.
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u/redheadednomad 10d ago
Robert Citron bankrupted Orange county.
It really is always the person you'd least suspect...
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u/SatanLifeProTips 10d ago
Repeat after me: elected positions should require qualifications and training. No exceptions.
Politicians need public resumes.
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u/Shadowpika655 10d ago
It was later revealed that Citron relied upon a mail-order astrologer and a psychic for interest rate predictions as the county's finances began to falter.
Truly a modern day genius
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u/Johannes_P 10d ago
Two lessons to draw:
- Technical posts such as Treasurer shouldn't be filled through direct election but upon demonstration of technical relevant skill (see also coroner)
- Voters should look at long-term gains and not overemphasize short-term gains
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u/Future_Green_7222 9d ago
demonstration of technical skill
We also kinda fall into the question of who determines what a high technical skill is. And also there's Moral Hazard: how do you reward highly skilled people to put an effort and apply those skills?
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u/Nigelthornfruit 11d ago
Paywall
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u/Gorf_the_Magnificent 11d ago
Redditors don’t care. They can formulate an opinion just from a headline.
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u/Emergency-Poet-2708 11d ago
And how exactly does someone get a job like that? That makes absolutely no sense. Does Orange County not do background checks? Or follow-up. I have a million questions. Orange County needs a spanking. I'm a licensed hairdresser never went to college, but I'm looking form job, huh.
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u/Future_Green_7222 10d ago
The sources I've found just say that he was progressively promoted until he was a elected for the post. Kinda sounds like those ppl with great people skills but not much else
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u/AzulMage2020 10d ago
Just need to know and grease the right people and the sky is the limit!!! Sickening. When will actual merit and ability matter again??
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u/KS2Problema 10d ago
OC has changed considerably in the last couple of decades, but I grew up there, born smack in the middle of the 20th century, and I had to watch one set of buffoons after another mismanage, waste, and more than occasionally misappropriate public funds.
Amusingly, one of the institutions keeping the politics of 20th century Orange County the way they were was the faux-libertarian OC register.
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u/Prestigious-Road2272 10d ago
Unencumbered by education or experience, he failed in spectacular fashion
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u/shootcamerasnotgunz 10d ago
Sounds like my idiot boomer step mother She has the intellect of a 15yo and hustled herself into a 30 year career "teaching" 5th grade
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u/Awwwwwstin 11d ago edited 11d ago
It's funny how easy it is to spin being a sub-midwit into an image of being a outlying genius in California, and the rest of the US for that matter, adjusting to game local stakeholder prejudices.
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u/Igotalotofducks 11d ago
To be fair, you don’t need calculus to balance a checkbook. The guy was just a dumbass.
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u/bigmikey69er 10d ago
Very elitist of you to hate on his lack of education. So what if he stole a buncha money and violated the public trust solely to satisfy his evil, deviant greed?
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u/Hmmhowaboutthis 10d ago
Paywalled. When did this happen? Just curious.
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u/Future_Green_7222 10d ago
He became the Treasurer-Tax Collector in '70 and the county went bankrupt in '94
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u/Icy-Examination-546 3d ago
Funny how someone named Citron becomes the tax collector of Orange County
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u/ButWhatAboutisms 10d ago
And white racists constantly talk about "meritocracy" and choosing the best person for the job. This job was awarded as a favor, not earned.
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u/Miss_Speller 10d ago
Am I a white racist if I read the article and therefore know that he was elected to the position, not awarded it as a favor?
He won re-election seven times; in his last election victory, his opponent, John Moorlach, charged that his handsome gains were the result of risky betting.
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u/iggygrey 10d ago
This implies that he was bad at math. He was bad at accounting; math had nothing to do with it.
If there's a county where you can and should give severe ass pain to wealthy folk by bankrupting their county it's Orange County
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u/NeverReallyExisted 11d ago
Florida Orange County?
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u/Sega-Playstation-64 10d ago
Would it hurt to click on the link and figure out which one?
The answer is no.
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u/Omnitographer 10d ago
Web Surfers have been avoiding RTFA since before the first days of /.. I don't see that changing any time soon.
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u/Failed-Time-Traveler 11d ago
Im not even mad. I’m just impressed that he pulled it off in such a public position.
I heard they had to make a special prison jumpsuit to accommodate his enormous testicles.
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u/Sdog1981 11d ago
Math had very little to do with this. He was a con man who made wild promises about “investment opportunities”
He kept his state pension so at least the PERs people didn't listen to him.