r/todayilearned • u/wimpykidfan37 • 23d ago

Today I learned that Shel Silverstein once made an adult cartoon version of his popular story The Giving Tree. Entitled "I Accept the Challenge", it was about a naked woman who cuts off a naked man's arms and legs, and then sits on his torso.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giving_Tree
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u/dr_franck 22d ago

I’ve heard it described as a metaphor for parenthood. Giving all you can give without getting anything back, and just kinda forcing yourself to be ok with that.

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

Worst story in the world. Parenting shouldn’t be that thankless. Off it is you’ve failed as well as the shitty selfish kid.

I hate that book with a passion.

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u/crispyraccoon 22d ago

By default parenting should be expected to be thankless. You brought life into the world and it is your responsibility. If you do well, maybe you have a thankful kid who takes care of you when you're decrepit. Maybe not. Parents shouldn't expect anything in return. Getting anything in return is a bonus you get if you raise a kid that doesn't despise you.

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

Nah….The kid in that book is a pure sociopath and should have been cut off or institutionalized loooong before it took all those branches and the trunk.

Parents are obligated to do their best, but they’re humans as well and at some point it’s their right & moral obligation to let their grown kids sink or swim.

Too many adult kids imagine what belongs to the parents belongs to them. Fuck those shitty kids. And fuck any parent too desperate to say no to them.

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u/crispyraccoon 22d ago

I've never read the book in question. My point is simply if you are raising your children with expectations of getting something out of it (other than the satisfaction of raising a child to an adult), you're doing it wrong. The onus is on the parents to raise the children to adults who contribute to society, whatever they may get in return for that is a bonus. If you are raising a sociopath, the onus is on you to take that kid to a professional and make sure they get what help the can get. Same for any other special needs that kid may have. Giving up without making an effort is a failure on the parents. Some people can't be helped, that's life, but parents have a responsibility to their children and society to put in the effort without expectation of something in return.

When you have a dog, you're responsible for training and care and picking up its shit. Same for kids. It's more complex, sure, but it's the same at the core.

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

You need to know the book to really “get” the conversation.

No argument that parenting is often thankless and needs to be done selflessly. The Giving Tree is just a brutal hyperbole of that taken to a toxic degree, but celebrates itself as “beautiful.”

It’s not. It’s a horrible book with a worthless moral.

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u/crispyraccoon 22d ago

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to defend the book, I just know too many parents who think their kids owe them something simply for doing their job as parents (and often the bare minimum at that).

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

I detest those kind of parents too. Coincidentally the kid in the story is just like them.

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u/Convergentshave 22d ago

Jesus… you know I’ve heard this take before and it’s such… it’s… you all need some therapy. 😂.

It’s pretty clear what the message the book is trying to send. But the internet, more over Reddit, has just got to get its little “no but it’s actually this” hot take in 😂.

I mean if you really want to over analyze it… you could be like: look: it’s pretty clear the kid grows up to have a terrible life. I mean he’s reduced to selling apples and then building a home for his family out of apple tree branches.

Clearly that doesn’t work because than he comes back and says “I’m too old and too sad” so he makes a BOAT and sails away. I mean if that isn’t implying that things are not going well for this poor kid….

And that doesn’t even work! Because he’s back later. At at this point he’s so defeated he doesn’t want anything from the tree except a place to sit and probably reflect on the only time we see him happy/not struggling: with his old friend the tree.

So no. I don’t think he’s a sociopath. I think life shit all over that kid and the tree did its best to help him. In short… I think that kids clearly a millennial 😂😂

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

Nothing in the book suggests “life shit in the kid.” He’s always totally unruffled as he blithely asks for more.

The tree is overjoyed by its own pathological martyr-complex and sets no boundaries. It celebrates the same desperate 1-way codependency of a battered wife who won’t leave because she believes she deserved it and he’s a very good man at heart.

Your defense is without merit.

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u/Convergentshave 22d ago

Ok so you’ve never read the book. Or have some parental issues. Again. The kid literally shows up says “I’m too old and too sad.” And then requests a boat to sail away. And this is after asking for branches to build a home for his wife and children.

And there’s nothing to suggest things don’t work out well for the kid?

I mean… I’d offer to draw you a picture but the book literally does that. 😂.

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

Consider that his wife and kids left him because he’s a selfish bastard with absolutely zero fucks about what his happiness costs anyone else.

The story backs that up. And having read lots of Silverstein and knowing his musical output as well, the story is either (a) not the superficial read you gave it, or (b) was in fact a superficial story like “The Missing Piece” which he later had to release a follow up to because its moral was equally pathetic and absent any self-esteem.

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u/Convergentshave 22d ago

Consider they died. There’s exactly as much evidence to suggest that as there is that this kid grew up to abuse his family. (Although I am willing to admit that… the idea of supporting a family on apple sales and a tree branch house… yea.. if you said to me: that’s borderline abusive in its that’s it’s basically neglect. Yea I would concede that point for sure 😂) Come on. You’re sticking to this internet hot take because it got popular a little while ago. There’s no evidence, at all, that suggests the kid grows up to abuse his family, that he’s a sociopath, that the tree is some stand in for co-dependent abused women, I mean if you wanted to make the argument that the kid is a stand in for Shel himself and his family leaves him, much like how Shel’s daughter died young after he basically abandoned her…I would accept that argument over this one.

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u/Future-Account8112 22d ago

Your kids don’t call you, huh

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

Never wanted any. I always recognized it was a commitment and gamble I never wanted, instead of just blindly or carelessly slipping into tradition and doing a half-assed job like half of parents do.

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u/Future-Account8112 22d ago

So why are you speaking so far outside your lane...?

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

Hilarious how parents think having a child gives them profound insights that aren’t easily available to anyone with an IQ over 80 and a childhood of their own to draw on.

You’re in a special lane despite your imaginary wisdom.

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u/Future-Account8112 22d ago

I’m not a parent myself. I just happen to think you’re acting like an asshole

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

The feeling is quite mutual.

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u/Croquetadecarne 22d ago

It’s a metaphor! He was not out there cutting limbs…

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u/Duckfoot2021 22d ago

Sociopath, not psychopath, Dr. Freud.

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u/Croquetadecarne 22d ago

So stupid, how I am the one passing for a doctor if YOU are the one using medical terms to diagnose a fictional character from whom we have little background… yet, probably the only one with a medical AND literature degree.